Block
1:10 Thu Sep 23
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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Like you. son?
"is that a large big-mac meal sir"
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Come On You Irons
1:06 Thu Sep 23
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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"Thats why I think people miss the point about all of this. Making society fairer is about removing the difference in opportunity between person a and person b."
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The difference in opportunity between people will always exist based on family background and circumstance. For example, privates schools will always exist whereby the richest in society can pay for their kids to have the best education money can buy.
However, there is to a large degree equality of opportunity in the workplace and anyone who works hard and wants to strive in 21st Century Britain can succeed.
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Mike Oxsaw
1:03 Thu Sep 23
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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threesixty 12:49 Thu Sep 23
..."why does person a have to work much harder than person b to achieve that success?"
Because that is the way the starting line-up presents itself.
People can't choose their birth parents so some start naturally from further back than others.
Those who do make that step up then give their own kids a better chance by allowing them to start further forward - but you can't solve that problem by throwing bucket-loads of cash (or other resources) at financially poor parents to improve the chances of all kids born to such parents.
I could have spent my whole life moaning about the problems & inequalities I faced as a kid born in Harold Hill to financially challenged parents (only financially challenged, I may add, because when I arrived my father decided to buy his own home rather then rent as all his brothers & sisters opted to do). I didn't choose that path as it would not lead to a better life for myself.
His actions brought me a little further forward in the race of life, and I have done similar with my own kids.
All done without recourse to demanding "the rich", "the wealthy", "the landed" hand over without question the wealth they and their ancestors had spent time & effort creating.
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threesixty
12:49 Thu Sep 23
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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"It's quite possible to be successful starting from a poor, "working class" background."
I think the issue isn't whether its possible, rather why does person a have to work much harder than person b to achieve that success?
Thats why I think people miss the point about all of this. Making society fairer is about removing the difference in opportunity between person a and person b.
But people who are against change and feel its as good as its every been etc.. end up voting to persevere that inequality.
Its perverse to say that a kid growing up on a council estate with drug dealers everywhere has the same opportunities in life as a kid growing up in a nice suburb with no crime and examples of success around them.
Even though on paper the same schools/libraries/univeristies etc.. are available to both in practise the environmental factors means its very unlikely both will achieve the same success.
I get that the debate is sometimes "who's fault is it that kids grow up in bad environments?". So we blame parents, communities etc.. But ultimately a kid has no choice in where they are born. So naturally it comes down to the government to look out for these kids and shape an environment that gives them equal opportunity.
Thats my opinion anyway.
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Mike Oxsaw
2:29 Thu Sep 23
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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It's quite possible to be successful starting from a poor, "working class" background.
The problem is, those from a similar background who remain poor resent what you have done because it highlights their own shortcomings and makes it difficult for them to blame someone else for their failings; those who are from a wealthy or privileged background regard you as an uncultured usurper and will have nothing to do with you unless it is unavoidable.
Both ends of the spectrum will be looking for any way possible to put you back in your rightful place, whatever ideas on improving things you may have.
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Hermit Road
8:47 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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"Say that to the kid brought up in a low income, working class home with an alcoholic father who beats his mother. "
That would be me then.
When you said, 'that's not autobiographical' you didn't need to bother. I knew that. Your fairy tale upbringing has left you thinking that everything has to be 'fair'. Whatever the fuck 'fair' means.
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threesixty
7:26 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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Hermit Road
"People who talk about things being fair sound like 5 year olds.
Things are as fair as they have ever been."
You do realise that your statement has probably been said every decade for the last 400 yrs.
The point is we should be constantly trying to improve. Thats how we excel at anything, whether it be life, sport or politics. If you think there is nothing more to do then that's the problem.
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Swiss.
7:25 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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Hermit Road 6:39 Wed Sep 22
"We absolutely should give up trying to solve inequality. Inequality is not a bad thing."
Say that to the kid brought up in a low income, working class home with an alcoholic father who beats his mother. Yeah he's gonna be able to concentrate on studies and make it rigt to the top. And that's not autobiographical btw.
You are a pontificating, ass wipe of a wanker.
When some bigger cunt than you punches your lights out maybe you can talk more on inequality.
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Hermit Road
7:03 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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People who talk about things being fair sound like 5 year olds.
Things are as fair as they have ever been. Go to school, work hard, take advantage of the phenomenal employment and educational opportunities available to every single person in this country and reap the rewards.
Or smoke a spliff and turn up to school/work late, Chuck out a few kids with different partners and moan about how unfair life is.
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threesixty
7:00 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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If you want things to be fair but are successful at life and have become rich you can't talk about fairness because by definition you're a hypocrite.
Yet if you are rich and dont give a fuck about making things fair for anyone else you're literally worshipped. Because you're not a hypocrite apparently.
So there's no hope for change. As the only people who want to solve things for the disadvantaged are subsequently torn down by the same disadvantaged people that could do with that change.
Modern day Britain in a nutshell.
working class crabs in a barrel..
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Hermit Road
6:57 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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“ Helping people who are in the worst situations is just human (good) nature. Empathy is nothing to be ashamed of.”
Then help people. You don’t need to force a government to adopt the politics of falsehood and envy to do that. Go outside your door and help someone. Job done.
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Come On You Irons
6:53 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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Mrs T's glorious evisceration of the arguments of the left and their pathetic viewpoints in this video sums things up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c
"They'd rather the poor were poorer provided the rich were less rich."
31 years later and the left still believe this when they bang on about inequality, which is why the Labour Party are languishing in opposition and are totally unelectable.
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goose
6:48 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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There's a difference between being less well off and actually living in poverty.
Helping people who are in the worst situations is just human (good) nature. Empathy is nothing to be ashamed of.
"Only you will prevent yourself from having a good economic life."
I'm not buying that - some people are just victims of circumstance and bad luck.
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Hermit Road
6:39 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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We absolutely should give up trying to solve inequality. Inequality is not a bad thing. It is a good thing and moreover, it is as natural as the changing of the seasons and the tides of the sea. You might as well try and campaign for an end to death.
If you live in the UK today, you have the opportunity to do very well. Only you will prevent yourself from having a good economic life.
If you are desperate enough for meaning and purpose that you have to invent a subclass of humans permanently embroiled in poverty to campaign for, then you could do with giving your ego a break, stop seeing yourself as The Saviour, and maybe doing some work in the garden.
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Mike Oxsaw
6:36 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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Alwaysaniron 6:22 Wed Sep 22
Agreed.
He'll find much more success as a sniper than as an infantryman.
Snipers are only sneaky bastards when they are not on your side.
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goose
6:23 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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Thanks for proving my point.
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Alwaysaniron
6:22 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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I like his honesty and his desire to keep football for the fans. Let's not kid ourselves though, the bloke is out to feather his own nest first and foremost. (Aren't we all)
He should keep well clear of politics, whilst he's a reasonably bright bloke the civil servants will make sure he's eaten alive.
Stick to punditry, I like it and so do millions of others.
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Swiss.
6:19 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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No goose it's called an epiphany.
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goose
6:16 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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some posters maybe - but when you find yourself backing the site retards (you/COYI) then something has to be very wrong.
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Swiss.
6:12 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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Goose are you one of those posters with an infantile attitude that takes "sides"? And even if you agree with them you won't admit it? If so that's very sad.
Even I have to admit Block has good taste in music and he knows I do and would be man enough to say it.....maybe.
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goose
5:37 Wed Sep 22
Re: Gary Neville on BBC
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hahaha irony over load.
when you find yourself on the same side of a discussion as Swiss and Come on Benrahma you know its time to get professional help.
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